The Problem of Meaning: Sign Systems and The 400 Years Celebration

Remember problem of meaning (here) folks?

I guess we're back to the topic again.

I saw it today on board Air Asia, the same picture without the Arabic words.

I ask myself was I offended?

I thought for a while.

Do I care if Arikah Badou has a "tatoo" of the Arabic text of Allah?

Or was it because it was on Print Paper?

When everyone else used a different version.

And then I smiled.........

What you make of this?

All our editors regardless of race and belief know that they must never use any image of the Prophet Muhammad or any photo showing the text of the Holy Quran. And we get plenty of such images from our foreign wire services. Normally, if our editors come across any photos with words or text in a script or alphabet they are not familiar with and it can be in Urdu, Dutch, Chinese and of course Arabic they will find out what the words mean because we will not use photos containing anything that is offensive. Which is also why we never publish gory photos of accidents or crime scenes. Unfortunately, the editors who used the Badu photograph are non-Muslims and they did not recognise the word “Allah” in Arabic. (here)

How can you even use "Unfortunately" ....

Ever seen this badge?

Never?

Never wondered what the Top Right meant?

Erikah Badu actually had a part of PDRM logo on both her shoulders and you didn't want to ask anyone around you what is that?

Have we really reached that level of ignorance?

Have we?

What about the Government's reaction to it?

Erikah probably took that picture way before coming to KL, so she has already so called "offended" the religious sensitivities of Malaysians.

The approved for her to come, Razman would not have brought her to KL (here) if the permit was still unclear.

Everything was fine up till the Star unfortunately printed a picture they got from a site (here) after getting the official version from Razman

At a press conference held this afternoon at Plenary Hall KLCC, organizers Pineapple Concerts confirmed that the concert was cancelled after PUSPAL revoked their license, despite working "working up to the 11th hour to rectify the issues." Badu said that she hoped to meet the minister to hear out his concerns and misgivings regarding the matter, defending Pineapple Concerts for their respectful conduct throughout the controversy. Pineapple Concerts marketing director Razman Razali and Badu explained that the photograph used by The Star had not originated from the media kit provided by the organizers. Referring to the controversy, Razman said, "The Star should have known better, to know what to run." Badu also pointed out that she had no tattoos and the 'Allah tattoo' at the center of the controversy was body art from a photoshoot referencing "The Painted Lady", a character from the 1973 surrealist film The Holy Mountain by Chilean-French filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky. In the film, "The Painted Lady" was a character who had various names of God etched on her skin. (here)

Grunge siout....they actually went out of their way to find that picture.......Pineapple actually lost their license because of it.......

From the Government point of view it is something that could lead to a prolonged problem it seems... 

Later on, he justified the cancellation of the concert, saying that if it had been allowed to go ahead, it would have created “a bigger and prolonged problem”. “The ‘Allah’ graphic on the singer’s body will surely create religious controversies among Muslims who do not appreciate such practice. “The cancellation of the concert is based on justification, if continued, will create a bigger and prolonged problem,” he said in a post on the micro-blogging site this afternoon. here

You see Erikah did not do it in KL, she did that in another jurisdiction some time ago.

She came clean no more "arts" on her body, no such thing on her.

It would have been a different situation if she still had it on her.

I can only give Thava's Shoulder Shrug with a sad face to it.....

We do we go from here?

Let's drop by Soromban kojap

Christians mark 400 years of Malay Bible as ‘Allah’ case drags on By Debra Chong March 02, 2012 KUALA LUMPUR, March 2 — The opportunity to use the word “Allah” in a non-Muslim context remains a struggle for Christian Malaysians as they mark 400 years since the Bible was first published in the Malay language. Christian scholars are huddling at a seminary in Seremban today, on the 400th anniversary of the Alkitab, in a conference that could shore up the Catholic Church’s case after it won, in 2009, the right to use the Arabic word to refer to God in its newspaper, The Herald. The Malay version of the Bible embossed with the words ‘Christian Publication’ and a cross appeared from 2005 following a Home Ministry agreement with local distributors. — Picture by Choo Choy May While Putrajaya has allowed churches nationwide to import the Malay-language Bible — first translated in 1612 — government lawyers refuse to withdraw their appeal against the Catholic Church’s suit. Organised by the Seminari Theoloji Malaysia (STM) and the Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM), the two-day conference kicked off this morning at 10 with an examination of the historical and theological perspectives on the translation of the Alkitab as well as the legal aspects concerning its print and distribution here. The day-long closed-door conference will see speakers representing, among others, the BSM, local Christian think-tank Kairos Research Centre and the United Bible Societies, the world’s biggest Bible translator, publisher and distributor organisation with 146 members across 200 countries and territories. Among the highlights of the conference is an exhibition of the Alkitab, first published in 1612 with the Malay translation of the Gospel of Matthew. A similar public discussion will take place at the Trinity Methodist Church in Petaling Jaya tomorrow, STM spokesman Reverend Lim Kar Yong told The Malaysian Insider when contacted. However, he stressed that the event was strictly for Christians. Despite the Catholic Church winning a High Court decision on December 31, 2009 to publish the word “Allah”, its weekly paper The Herald has been blocked from doing so the past three years pending the Home Ministry’s appeal. The case has been languishing in the Court of Appeal since. But the controversy spilled over into the rights of Malaysia’s Christian population at large as shipments of Malay-language bibles catering to the Bahasa Malaysia-speaking Bumiputera Christians were also blocked or confiscated last year. It was turned into election fodder in the run-up to last year’s Sarawak polls as Christians there make up nearly half of the state’s total population. And despite Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak’s historic meeting with Pope Benedict XVI in Rome last July to establish diplomatic relations between Muslim-majority Malaysia and the Vatican, there has been little progress in resolving the “Allah” dispute. Christians form 9.2 per cent of Malaysia’s 28.3 million-strong population. The Christian and Muslim religious communities have been engaged in a tug-of-war over the word “Allah”, with the latter group arguing that its use should be exclusive to them on the grounds that Islam is monotheistic and the word “Allah” denotes the Muslim God. Christians, however, have argued that “Allah” is an Arabic word that has been used by those of other religious beliefs, including the Jews, in reference to God in many other parts of the world, notably in Arab nations and Indonesia. (here)

Sound like a Lost in Translation seminar to me.

You see you were wrong for 400 years plus.

Actually you have been wrong after the original texts got translated

But what I find strange is that you don't mind changing "his son's" name

His name was not Christian enough I guess..

Between 1880 and 1929, the Singapore branch of the British and Foreign Bible Society (BFBS) expanded major efforts in translating the Bible into Malay.

The most prominent of these was the LMS missionary William Girdlestone Shellabear who gave us the first Malay Bible translation specifically in the Malay of what is now called Peninsular Malaysia. In this version Jesus was rendered Isa al-Maseh.

Shellabear is also remembered for the New Testament in Baba Malay. more here

He is now Yesus Kristus in case you are wondering.

Some reference (here)

Hebrew: Yeshua
English: Jesus
 French: Jésus
 German: Jesus
 Swahilli: Jesus
 Arabic: Isa
Greek: Ιησούς
 Chinese (Simplified Han): 耶稣
 Italian: Gesù
 Japanese: イエス・キリスト
 Korean: 예수
 Russian: Иисус
 Spanish: Jesús
Bulgarian: Исус
Czech: Ježíš
 Dutch: Jezus
 Estonian: Jeesus
 Haitian Creole: Jezi
 Hungarian: Jézus
 Romanian: Isus
 Thai: พระเยซู
Turkish: Isa

Strange don't u think? Bapak ikut Arab...Anak Ikut Orang Putih....

Ape hal.....

Is he really your God?

Do you follow the same line of thinking as the late Pope John Paul II

 "We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: “We believe in the same God, the one God,the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection” (Insegnamenti,VII/2, 1985 page 495 quoted during a general audience on May 5, 1999).

I wonder.

They keep on quoting the harmony of countries with Allah being used in their bibles.

Remember this observation? (here)

Refer below a chart mapping the Relationships between Religious Restrictions and the Social Hostilities in the country surveyed.

 Malaysia is considered as a country with a very high government restrictions but surprisingly the ONLY Muslim Majority Country with Low Social Hostilities Compare that with other Muslim Majority Countries....

Just look at the higher quadrant circled in Blue...these are the countries with Arabic Allah usage in the Bible

How do they fare?

Argh gua malas nak cita ......lu baca balik la all my older post on the matter....

Am I now suppose to assume that a number of Non Muslim Malaysians before this did not recognise the Arabic Allah?

For those who did not what do you associate it with now?

Erikah's shoulder? Malay God? Muslim God? PDRM top right strange looking text?

Tell me which one is it.

Then go ask any Muslim what do we associate it with?

Any mental picture of it?

Then ask them if you ask them to picture Allah's Son?

Who would they see in their mind?

For those who agree with me can we now get together for a change and say that we are offended with the use of Allah which is the Proper Name of our God to be used by the Christians

Ilaah is God in Arabic.....but not just God but Tuhan yang di sembah......different from Raab which is Tuhan yg menciptakan, memberi dan lain lain lagi lah brader....which is why when you ask orang kafir Arab....siapa yg menciptakan langit dan bumi they'll say Allah ......but if you ask them siapa yg di sembah....that would be something else la some might say that Allah is actually 2 words...."Al + Ilaah" = Allah meaning The God....So is it a common name like man or God or is it like proper name like satD.......

The word Allah, according to several Arabic lexicons, means "the Being Who comprises all the attributes of perfection", i.e. the Being Who is perfect in every way (in His knowledge, power etc.), and possesses the best and the noblest qualities imaginable in the highest degree. This meaning is supported by the Holy Quran when it says:"His are the best (or most beautiful) names." (17:110; 20:8; and 7:180)Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god'). Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been grammatical incorrect, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do. Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah,Quran Surah 5 , verse 3 Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..."

Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word. Allah the Unique Name for God, Muslim.Org (here)

Even the Arabs are changing

We need to address a topic that is sure to come up when using ArabBible. The textual foundation for ArabBible is the venerable Van Dyck translation, completed in Lebanon in March of 1860. You are probably aware that the term used for “God” in the Van Dyck version is “Allah”. However, ArabBible does not use this word at all. Instead, the word “al-ilaah” has been employed (note: no other changes have been made to the Van Dyck text). Why the change? To answer this question we should look at several issues..More here

Put your faith in the hands of translators??

Interesting concept indeed.

Ok I better stop now my mind is already wondering to talk about the "live" debate between Wee, Theresa and a guy named Chong....

Apehal takde running ticker with a phone number ? I was itching to ask the 3 of them about Education and National Language Issue.....

And what's with the girl in tudung at the end.....lu kat studio nak tanye soalan live of National TV jangan la mengelabah tak tentu hala....

Parah siout....malu gua

PS: Fellow Muslims what do think of Section 289A of our Penal Code

Section 298A of our Penal Code Causing, etc., disharmony, disunity, or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will, or prejudicing, etc., the maintenance of harmony or unity, on grounds of religion298A. (1) Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representations, or by any act, activity or conduct, or by organizing, promoting or arranging, or assisting in organizing, promoting or arranging, any activity, or otherwise in any other manner— (a) causes , or attempts to cause , or is likely to cause disharmony, disunity, or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill will; or Penal Code 117 (b) prejudices, or attempts to prejudice, or is likely to prejudice, the maintenance of harmony or unity, on grounds of religion, between persons or groups of persons professing the same or different religions, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term of not less than two years and not more than five years. More here

Unfortunate? Really.

Well that sound quite right now.......

What you all think folks

Suspension from Work Vs 2 Years in Jail.

Which one do you prefer?

UPDATE 3:29am 3/3

Was the Government decision correct? Did it come at the right timing?

What if the person in charged of the application of the permit went online to review the sources of the pictures provided to them, would they have decided that the "tatoos" were offensive to Malaysians and if so should we allow Erika in at the airport if she wore a spaghetti strap with "tatoos" for all to see?

Would Erika's life is now be in danger cause other Muslims countries now learns about the picture?

Would they let her in?

I don't know...what do you think

Most of you probably were not aware of the "tatoos"...someone made us aware of it...

It's a good thing to do but what is the motive?