Hi Folks :)
It's been a wee while eh....rindu saya tengok Blogger New Post window
Apa kabar semua?
What brings me back to this particular page is the current confusion on the Allah Suit by Herald.....
140 Characters can't do justice for what I'm about to ramble on...
So where do we begin?
Shall we start with Herald...
Herald is a Catholic Publication which challenged KDN powers in court.
What "power" is Herald challenging?
The power under Printing Press and Publication Act
What is KDN Position on the matter?
How did this all came about and What is "Polisi Kerajaan" with regards to usage of Allah in Al-Kitabs or Other Christian Publications?
What exactly is Government Position on Al-Kitab?
The Initial ban in 1981: Absolutely by order under the Internal Security (Prohibition of Publications) (No. 3) Order made on 2nd December 1981 (KHEDN : 0 59/3/9/Jld 4; PN (PU2) 24 pt. 11). “The printing, publication, sale, issue, circulation or possession of the publication which are described in the Schedule and prejudicial to the national interest and security of the Federation are prohibited absolutely throughout Malaysia.”
1982 Changes was made to the Order The Alkitab was banned by order under the Internal Security (Prohibition of Publications) (No. 4) Order made on 22nd March 1982 (KHEDN: 0 59/3/9/A; PN (PU2) 24 Pt. 11). “The printing, publication, sale, issue, circulation or possession of the publication which are described in the Schedule and prejudicial to the national interest and security of the Federation are prohibited, subject to the condition that this prohibition shall not apply to the possession or use in Churches of such publication by persons, professing the Christian religion, throughout Malaysia.” (source here)
Now that we are clear on the Federal Government Position, we need to look at the position of Islamic Government in each state Headed by the Head of Islamic Religion
The Enactments on Control of Propagation derives its powers from our Constitution Article 11.4
Key Operative word is CONTROL OR RESTRICT THE PROPAGATION
The Various State Authorities enacted the respective Laws to control propagation to Muslims. I've done a comparative summary on the Ban for Non Muslims to use Islamic Terms (refer table below)
As you can see from the table above NOT ALL States have the Ban, Perlis for instance lead by a Sultan does not have such law enacted, Perak has it but it is not effective. Jail terms ranges from 6 months to 5 Years and fines from MYR 1000 to 5000.
Take a look at Kelantan, one can kena Rotan beb.
There's no standard over a similar offence, strange don't u think? Macam dekat Amerika with all the kelam kabut state laws on a similar offence
Is it because each Sultan view the severity of the transgression differently?
Herein lies the problem, without a harmonized standards, there will be a selection effect (i.e folks may choose to do the said deeds in states with the lowest penalty or the one without the prohibition)
Let's do a quick analysis on the BSM Bible Raid.
Why would MAIS/JAIS need to get AG's approval to charge BSM for an offense that would only land BSM a 1,000 ringgit fine?
Or is JAIS trying to charge BSM under PROPAGATION? And if so, who did BSM propagate Al-Kitab to?
Care to come forward and give your evidence.
I twitted this the other day
Go ahead then, no need to arrest just fine them cause that is what your law says anyway.. I bet you the Christian would gladly chuck 1000 pieces of 1 ringgit in your face..
You wanna know what I think folks....JAIS/MAIS tried to push the AG to use the Penal Code
Which clause?
Remember the ISA Order which classify Al-Kitab as Prejudicial to National Security? It is still prejudicial except for when it is used by Christians in Churches
Now the re-worded "Detrimental to Parliamentary DemoCRAZY"
This to me is becoming more like a Self Fulfilling Prophecy.......If overzealous religious fanatics starts acting as per the definition (b).......how would KDN and the AG act?
The biggest issue is still Propagation, which is NOT YET an Offence under the Penal Code. Take a look again at the Table above, if A Non Muslim propagate other Religion to Muslims in KL, Sabah, Serawak, Penang, Perak and Perlis..he or she can walk free technically.
Take this new guy for instance
Muslims in Malaysia are protected from "Propagation" of other Religion as Per 11.1
This CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION from PROPAGATION is DIFFERENT from the State Laws that will be or has been enacted to Control or Restrict Propagation.
The Constitution itself has provided for this Protection, irrespective of whether the State Enacts such laws are in force or not.
The only way forward, considering the lack of Harmonisation and the lack of political will in Some States IS TO PUSH FOR A PENAL CODE AMENDMENT TO CRIMINALISE PROPAGATION OF OTHER RELIGION TO MUSLIMS.
Brani?
OK folks.....enough of heavy stuff...
Lets have fun a wee bit...
Of late I've been watching all this merepek discussion about whether Malaysia is a Secular or Islamic State
I think the question is wrongly framed
Fact is we have 2 sets of Government, one is the Federal and State Government elected by the Rakyat and the Other is the Islamic Governments headed by the respective Sultans.
The operation of the Islamic Government in each states differ with its own set of laws whereas the Federal laws are commonly applied to all.....The Gap between the 2 is no-man's land at this stage....I have no answer to this dichotomy
We got body snatchers running wild...
Tricky situation cause the person in question can no longer answer if he or she is a Muslim.
Oh BTW Pak Lebais2 sekalian barging into a funeral is SO SO RUDE!
Apa hukum orang Islam di kebumikan bukan cara Islam? Dia jadi Kafir ke?
Is it the role of state to ensure proper burial of Muslims?
Nowadays even weddings are not spared....kesian sama that lady, I would sue the ass off the religious authorities and get them to give me a GRAND HINDU WEDDING
If you wanna add some spice to the whole equation...think about this Child Abduction linked to custody battles between Muslims and Non Muslims....
I'm no expert in this but I think Raja Bahrin the PAS MP may be able to shed some light with regards to the motives, he "abducted" his kids from Australia, travelled by boat into Irian and finally to Malaysia on a gruelling 17 day journey....this I think far exceed the cases we are seeing in Malaysia
Mmmmmm.......guano pokcik acu cerito sikit bakpo demo gi buat gitu weh...
Oh...before I end this post I wanna ask all the Pro Hudud folks a couple of questions...
It's been a wee while eh....rindu saya tengok Blogger New Post window
Apa kabar semua?
What brings me back to this particular page is the current confusion on the Allah Suit by Herald.....
140 Characters can't do justice for what I'm about to ramble on...
So where do we begin?
Shall we start with Herald...
Herald is a Catholic Publication which challenged KDN powers in court.
What "power" is Herald challenging?
The power under Printing Press and Publication Act
 |
| Source Justice Law Bee Lan High Court Judgement (here) |
How did this all came about and What is "Polisi Kerajaan" with regards to usage of Allah in Al-Kitabs or Other Christian Publications?
What exactly is Government Position on Al-Kitab?
 |
| Source (here) |
The Initial ban in 1981: Absolutely by order under the Internal Security (Prohibition of Publications) (No. 3) Order made on 2nd December 1981 (KHEDN : 0 59/3/9/Jld 4; PN (PU2) 24 pt. 11). “The printing, publication, sale, issue, circulation or possession of the publication which are described in the Schedule and prejudicial to the national interest and security of the Federation are prohibited absolutely throughout Malaysia.”
1982 Changes was made to the Order The Alkitab was banned by order under the Internal Security (Prohibition of Publications) (No. 4) Order made on 22nd March 1982 (KHEDN: 0 59/3/9/A; PN (PU2) 24 Pt. 11). “The printing, publication, sale, issue, circulation or possession of the publication which are described in the Schedule and prejudicial to the national interest and security of the Federation are prohibited, subject to the condition that this prohibition shall not apply to the possession or use in Churches of such publication by persons, professing the Christian religion, throughout Malaysia.” (source here)
Now that we are clear on the Federal Government Position, we need to look at the position of Islamic Government in each state Headed by the Head of Islamic Religion
The Enactments on Control of Propagation derives its powers from our Constitution Article 11.4
Key Operative word is CONTROL OR RESTRICT THE PROPAGATION
The Various State Authorities enacted the respective Laws to control propagation to Muslims. I've done a comparative summary on the Ban for Non Muslims to use Islamic Terms (refer table below)
 |
| Source here for Enactments and here for Fatwa |
As you can see from the table above NOT ALL States have the Ban, Perlis for instance lead by a Sultan does not have such law enacted, Perak has it but it is not effective. Jail terms ranges from 6 months to 5 Years and fines from MYR 1000 to 5000.
Take a look at Kelantan, one can kena Rotan beb.
There's no standard over a similar offence, strange don't u think? Macam dekat Amerika with all the kelam kabut state laws on a similar offence
Is it because each Sultan view the severity of the transgression differently?
Herein lies the problem, without a harmonized standards, there will be a selection effect (i.e folks may choose to do the said deeds in states with the lowest penalty or the one without the prohibition)
Let's do a quick analysis on the BSM Bible Raid.
Why would MAIS/JAIS need to get AG's approval to charge BSM for an offense that would only land BSM a 1,000 ringgit fine?
Or is JAIS trying to charge BSM under PROPAGATION? And if so, who did BSM propagate Al-Kitab to?
Care to come forward and give your evidence.
I twitted this the other day
Irrespective of my position on Allah Ciplak I'm willing to replace the Bibles for BSM if JAIS/MAIS moves ahead to dispose em.
— satD (@satD) June 20, 2014
And that was in direct response to the utter stupidity of our unelected religious leadersThe Selangor Islamic Religious Council (Mais) today insisted it will continue to seize Bibles that contained the word Allah in the state, adding that it had every right to destroy the holy books it had already seized earlier this year from the Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM). Its chairman Datuk Mohamad Adzib Mohd Isa said operations to counter the distribution of such Bibles in Selangor will continue and warned that it will not hesitate to arrest those distributing it. "This process will go on and we will also make arrests," he said in his speech at an event in the Tabung Haji Complex in Kuala Lumpur today. (here)If this is the enforcement philosophy of MAIS, why don't you go on knocking on every Church door in Selangor and fine them the 1000 ringgit...
Go ahead then, no need to arrest just fine them cause that is what your law says anyway.. I bet you the Christian would gladly chuck 1000 pieces of 1 ringgit in your face..
You wanna know what I think folks....JAIS/MAIS tried to push the AG to use the Penal Code
Which clause?
 |
| Source Penal Code 2012 here |
Remember the ISA Order which classify Al-Kitab as Prejudicial to National Security? It is still prejudicial except for when it is used by Christians in Churches
Now the re-worded "Detrimental to Parliamentary DemoCRAZY"
This to me is becoming more like a Self Fulfilling Prophecy.......If overzealous religious fanatics starts acting as per the definition (b).......how would KDN and the AG act?
The biggest issue is still Propagation, which is NOT YET an Offence under the Penal Code. Take a look again at the Table above, if A Non Muslim propagate other Religion to Muslims in KL, Sabah, Serawak, Penang, Perak and Perlis..he or she can walk free technically.
Take this new guy for instance
There is no law in Sarawak that says you cannot use the word 'Allah', and I will not permit such a law in Sarawak as long as I am the Chief Minister," he said during a meeting with the people at the Catholic Centre here yesterday. Adenan said he believed everyone is a child of God regardless of race and religion, and that God loves everyone irrespective of their faiths. He regarded 'Allah' or 'Tuhan' as the same God of many colours and there is no difference among his people (here)Cuba mengucap sikit pakcik
Muslims in Malaysia are protected from "Propagation" of other Religion as Per 11.1
This CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION from PROPAGATION is DIFFERENT from the State Laws that will be or has been enacted to Control or Restrict Propagation.
The Constitution itself has provided for this Protection, irrespective of whether the State Enacts such laws are in force or not.
The only way forward, considering the lack of Harmonisation and the lack of political will in Some States IS TO PUSH FOR A PENAL CODE AMENDMENT TO CRIMINALISE PROPAGATION OF OTHER RELIGION TO MUSLIMS.
Brani?
OK folks.....enough of heavy stuff...
Lets have fun a wee bit...
Of late I've been watching all this merepek discussion about whether Malaysia is a Secular or Islamic State
I think the question is wrongly framed
Fact is we have 2 sets of Government, one is the Federal and State Government elected by the Rakyat and the Other is the Islamic Governments headed by the respective Sultans.
The operation of the Islamic Government in each states differ with its own set of laws whereas the Federal laws are commonly applied to all.....The Gap between the 2 is no-man's land at this stage....I have no answer to this dichotomy
We got body snatchers running wild...
Tricky situation cause the person in question can no longer answer if he or she is a Muslim.
Oh BTW Pak Lebais2 sekalian barging into a funeral is SO SO RUDE!
Apa hukum orang Islam di kebumikan bukan cara Islam? Dia jadi Kafir ke?
Is it the role of state to ensure proper burial of Muslims?
Nowadays even weddings are not spared....kesian sama that lady, I would sue the ass off the religious authorities and get them to give me a GRAND HINDU WEDDING
If you wanna add some spice to the whole equation...think about this Child Abduction linked to custody battles between Muslims and Non Muslims....
I'm no expert in this but I think Raja Bahrin the PAS MP may be able to shed some light with regards to the motives, he "abducted" his kids from Australia, travelled by boat into Irian and finally to Malaysia on a gruelling 17 day journey....this I think far exceed the cases we are seeing in Malaysia
"The odds were against me and I had to surrender my passport, credit cards and identification everytime I want to see my children. It was difficult to reach out to what was rightfully mine. The problem was not with my ex-wife, but the system." He said he was prevented from bringing his children to the mosque to teach them basic Islamic prayers (here).
Mmmmmm.......guano pokcik acu cerito sikit bakpo demo gi buat gitu weh...
Oh...before I end this post I wanna ask all the Pro Hudud folks a couple of questions...
- Mr A steals a DVD from a Shop goes home and watch it, Mr B download via Peer to Peer (hogging bandwith), then acted as a Slave to redistribute the Content to Millions who then replicated the act, how would this be treated under Hudud (Theft), which one is more severe
- A and B berzina dekat sempadan Kelantan and Trengganu (during the intercourse A was physically in Kelantan and B was in Trengganu), the offence was "witnessed" by 2 Saksi cukup sifat from Kelantan side and another 2 saksi cukup sifat from Trengganu. How do you charge them considering that you need 4 saksi and State Offences is linked to jurisdiction?
- If Akad Nikah via Skype is accepted (here), would Online Khalwat/Sex be an offence?
Let's start with that....
Till then folks....I shall go back into hybernation